“It would be a huge benefit to us if mixed martial arts became an Olympic sport,” White said. “It would create instant awareness around the world, and it would be huge.

“I would support it 100 per cent. I personally am not out there trying to get mixed martial arts as an Olympic sport … but if it popped and they said, ‘Yes, we’re thinking about it,’ I would go guns ablazing and try to make it happen.”

I think it would be great to see MMA as an Olympic event. It would legitimize the sport while showing that the IOC cares about staying current and fresh. My concerns are that on such a big stage, people will certainly condemn the sport for being too violent, unless there are rule changes, which I would almost guarantee there would be if something like this was to happen. If MMA was to become a Olympic sport, but modified to IOC rules, I don’t see Dana White being as supportive then. What I would like to see in the meantime is some of the higher level fighters competing at their strongest discipline for their country. How cool would it be to see George St. Pierre suit up for Canada against the American, Jon Fitch in a pure wrestling match? Something like that would be great to watch and could still serve to legitimize the sport, since it would be obvious to people who think that UFC fighters are just brawlers, that these men are unbelievably skilled, trained athletes.

Please continue to post any questions or comments you may have and don’t forget to follow me on Twitter @zachlipari.

Dana White describes the new UFC Gym as not being a “fighters gym.” What he means by this is that people who might be interested in learning Muay Thai kick boxing but may be intimidated by going to a Muay Thai gym can feel comfortable learning at the UFC Gym, where they can learn with other people who are taking a more casual approach, as well. With an Octagon available for classes as well as more unconventional training such as the “caveman workout,” which involves truck tires and sledge hammers, this gym seems to have all of its bases covered for every commitment level. Also, where I think the gym will thrive is with its youth training section geared towards kids, which involves the technology to keep things interesting for them while learning martial arts and practicing fitness.

I happen to think this is a great business venture for the UFC from both a fan’s perspective as well as a business perspective. Capitalizing on a niche market in a multi-billion dollar per year industry isn’t always an option, and I think the UFC has done a great job recognizing the need for something like this. A spokesperson for the UFC has gone on record stating that they hope to open as many as 10 of these gyms nationwide in 2010 with possible locations in Toronto and Hawaii.

As I am writing this, I wonder if the NFL possibly missed out on an opportunity to throw its hat into the fitness industry. I think that the UFC is in a special place because while working out like a UFC fighter can sound pretty intense, starting at a beginner level is more interesting and useful towards fitness than anything else. It is hard for me to picture NFL combine training at anything less than full speed for people looking for a little bit of a change to their normal routines. The NFL, I suppose, is better suited with programs such as Play 60 which is geared towards children, or player-run football camps, but I do believe with the right business plan could possibly make a splash if they ever wanted to.

It will be interesting to monitor the success of this new venture and to see if it expands into other products such as health supplements or home workout equipment. For the moment though, I definitely like my neighborhood gym a lot less.

Check out a video of the UFC Gym here.

Please post any questions or comments you may have and don’t forget to follow me on Twitter @zachlipari

This deal surprised me at first, but based on what I have read about the budding relationship between Sheikh Tahnoon and UFC ownership and the possibilities that this partnership could bring on a global level, it makes more and more sense. When asked about how he envisioned this would affect the operations of the UFC, UFC President Dana White replied:

“It affects it positively. As for the day to day and how everything runs, it’s business as usual. Strategically, in our global expansion, it’s gonna help us get to certain places a lot faster than we could have done it. “

“We view this as the perfect strategic partnership to help us grow this business and fast track our expansion into other parts of the world. There are a lot of guys over the last nine years that have tried to buy in, invest, get us to go public, and try to partner up with the UFC. We got in this thing because we love this sport, we love the UFC, and we have this vision to take this thing globally and turn it into the biggest sport in the world. And when I say that, I know people think I’m a lunatic, but it’s true, and it’s gonna happen. So this deal is a perfect strategic partnership. These guys are awesome strategic partners to help us reach that goal even faster. “

The UFC comes to Abu Dabi in April for UFC 112, and based on how they have done business in the past, I would say that Dana White and the Fertitta brothers are very comfortable with Sheikh Tahnoon and his company, Flash Entertainment, because the UFC has never been a company to hide its feelings or sugar coat anything so. I  believe that if the deal wasn’t perfect, then they would not be on board. I look forward to the UFC continuing to expand into a globally recognized sport and company, and I hope this was a smart deal to get them to reach their goals. This is certainly a big way to start of 2010 for the UFC and it will be interesting to see the fruits of this deal in years to come.

Please continue to post any questions or comments you may have and follow me on Twitter @zachlipari.

Once again, I have to believe that the UFC is ahead of the curve on this front. Fighters, in addition to working for the UFC, are their own brand and websites such as Twitter can help the fighter to directly grow their own personal iamge and receive more exposure. There are different, creative ways for a fighter to use Twitter and other social networking sites to actually make money for themselves. A fighter can tweet about their sponsor or hold sponsored contests through their Twitter account as an incentive for people to follow them and to pay attention, leading to increased value for the fans, the fighter, and the sponsoring company. UFC hall of famer and former champion, Chuck Liddell has even taken the next step and has developed MMAJacked.com a site specifically designed to connect Mixed Martial Arts fighters to their fans on a more personal level. Dana White frequently participates in “Twitter Tag,” an idea that was developed for Shaquille O’Neal by Digital Royalty that allows fans to find you in a public place such as a mall, or restaurant based on your tweets, usually for a prize, or in Dana White’s case, tickets to a UFC event. Georges St. Pierre’s Twitter account isn’t personally run by him, but his handlers had the idea to have fans e-mail Georges during his training by clicking a link that required you to sign up for his fan site before sending the e-mail, which ultimately attracted thousands of new fans.

The UFC is now more accessible than any other sports organization on a personal level. Everyone from the ring girls, to the announcers, to the fighters, to ownership all have highly personal Twitter accounts that are more than just company fluff and that actually give you insight into their lives and opinions which helps us, as fans, relate to them. As social media technology grows I am confident that the UFC will always be at the forefront and it will be interesting to see different business plans develop around these websites.

Please continue to post your comments and follow me on Twitter @zachlipari.

This is the fourth interview in an on-going series by Gary Wimsett, Jr., lawyer and MMA enthusiast, about the business of Mixed Martial Arts. In Part I, Gary spoke with Sports Illustrated Senior Contributor, L. Jon Wertheim, about his new book, “Blood in the Cage” about the history of MMA, the career of Pat Miletich, and the rise of the UFC. In Part II, Gary and Sam Sheridan, author of “A Fighter’s Heart” engaged in a Q & A regarding Sam’s insights into the fighting world as a writer and fighter. In Part III, Gary talked to Pat Miletich about WAMMA, the UFC, and unionization. In this interview, Gary speaks with Ken Pavia of MMA Agents about what life is like for one of the sport’s busiest men. Ken answered these questions while in Montreal for UFC 97. Gary exchanged e-mails with Ken before – from Finland, Japan, and points all over the globe, but rarely from Ken’s home in California

Wimsett: When/Why did you start MMA Agents? What were you doing before and what was it about the industry that appealed to you? Do you exclusively represent MMA fighters or do you have other sports clients?

Pavia: I purchased UFC 1 and became a fan. I was introduced to Ricco Rodriguez soon after he lost to Nog in Japan and he approached me for representation. I was a baseball and hockey agent for 12 years prior. I now only represent MMA fighters.

Wimsett: How many fighters do you represent? Who are your top guys? Do you represent women fighters?

Pavia: I represent 55 fighters. One female. Erin Toughill. They are all top guys…

Wimsett: Do you oversee/coordinate your fighters’ training schedules and programs?

Pavia: I leave the training to the professionals. I seek business opportunities for my clients. They choose which fights to take.

Wimsett: How many different promotions do you work with? Which one is the easiest to work with? What kind of services are you able to provide to a fighter under a UFC contract?

Pavia: In 2007 we sent fighters to 32 promotions in 8 countries. In 2008 we sent them to 35 promotions in 8 counties. We will blow those numbers away this year. We provide compliance support, media support, travel support, sponsorships, PR, legal, appearances and seminars, and fight procurement.

Wimsett: Who are some of the biggest sponsors in the industry? How do you ensure them a return on their investment? How has the slumping economy affected sponsorship and/or endorsement deals you get for your fighters?

Pavia: TapouT is an industry leader. This question is best answered by the sponsorship department.

Wimsett: Where do you see the UFC in five years? Still the “King of the Mountain” or will there be some other large-scale promotion competing for PPV dollars?

Pavia: Really your guess is as good as mine. I will say they have a significant head start.

Wimsett: Describe a typical workday for you. Do you travel a lot?

Pavia: I travel 7 out of 8 weekends. I get up about 9 or 10 and just break to eat and continue to work until generally 3 or 4 AM, 7 days a week. I will never be out worked.

Wimsett: Other than your law degree, do you have any other certifications or licenses? Anything really necessary?

Pavia: I was certified to represent athletes by the player associations of the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL.

Wimsett: Where is MMA Agents headquartered?

Pavia: We are based out of Huntington Beach with affiliate offices in Korea, London and Paris.

Wimsett: Do you feel you have to be in or around Las Vegas or be able to travel there regularly to make your business work?

Pavia: I get there enough and with my blackberry, I am global. I represent about 8 fighters out of Vegas.

Wimsett: Do you have an East Coast operation?

Pavia: No I do not.

Wimsett: Thoughts on WAMMA? A Fighter’s Association?

Pavia: Don’t really know much about them. But will say I really like Mike Lynch.

Wimsett: What MMA websites do you stay up to date on? How do you stay informed about what’s happening in this ever-changing industry?

Pavia: Junkie, Sherdog, Weekly, MMA.tv, Facebook, and Myspace are always open on my computer. I also peek at CBSsportsline and USAtoday.

Wimsett: As a fan, what MMA matchup would you most like to see right now?

Pavia: Tito v Babalu, Radach v Lawler, Vitor v Anderson, Riggs v Shields or Diaz, Baroni v Davis or Diaz, Cyrille v Houston or Irvin, Hieron v Goat, AJ v Howard or Alves, Pyle v Condit, and Kampman v Swick.

Wimsett: How many employees do you have? How do you recruit and hire? Do you have an internship program?

Pavia: We have 5 employees and 5 interns, and one full time consultant. We do have an intern program and usually take law students.

Wimsett: Who is your biggest competition?

Pavia: Ourself. We are first and second best.

Wimsett: Who do you look up to in the sports business? Role models?

Pavia: I admire Drew Rosenhaus and Lee Steinberg. I admire Jim Rome and Tommy Lasorda.

Wimsett: What’s the most important skill/attribute of an effective MMA agent?

Pavia: Personality, ice in veins, ability to be rational not emotional, and ability to solve problems. Thick skin too…

Wimsett: Are you actively recruiting college wrestlers? How do you recruit clients?

Pavia: No we are not. We only sign fighters that have experienced a significant amount of success at a local circuit and are ready for major shows.

Wimsett: What do you do to get away from the chaos? When was your last vacation?

Pavia: I haven’t had a real break in three plus years, I don’t get away from the chaos. It defines me.

This is the fourth interview in an on-going series by Gary Wimsett, Jr., lawyer and MMA enthusiast, about the business of Mixed Martial Arts.  In Part I, Gary spoke with Sports Illustrated Senior Contributor, L. Jon Wertheim, about his new book, “Blood in the Cage” about the history of MMA, the career of Pat Miletich, and the rise of the UFC.  In Part II, Gary and Sam Sheridan, author of “A Fighter’s Heart” engaged in a Q & A regarding Sam’s insights into the fighting world as a writer and fighter. In Part III, Gary talked to Pat Miletich about WAMMA, the UFC, and unionization.  In this interview, Gary speaks with Ken Pavia of MMA Agents about what life is like for one of the sport’s busiest men.  Ken answered these questions while in Montreal for UFC 97.  Gary exchanged e-mails with Ken before – from Finland, Japan, and points all over the globe, but rarely from Ken’s home in California

Wimsett: When/Why did you start MMA Agents?  What were you doing before and what was it about the industry that appealed to you?  Do you exclusively represent MMA fighters or do you have other sports clients?

Pavia: I purchased UFC 1 and became a fan.  I was introduced to Ricco Rodriguez soon after he lost to Nog in Japan and he approached me for representation.  I was a baseball and hockey agent for 12 years prior.  I now only represent MMA fighters.

Wimsett: How many fighters do you represent?  Who are your top guys?  Do you represent women fighters?

Pavia: I represent 55 fighters.  One female.  Erin Toughill.  They are all top guys…

Wimsett: Do you oversee/coordinate your fighters’ training schedules and programs?

Pavia: I leave the training to the professionals.  I seek business opportunities for my clients.  They choose which fights to take.

Wimsett: How many different promotions do you work with?  Which one is the easiest to work with?  What kind of services are you able to provide to a fighter under a UFC contract?

Pavia: In 2007 we sent fighters to 32 promotions in 8 countries.  In 2008 we sent them to 35 promotions in 8 counties.  We will blow those numbers away this year.  We provide compliance support, media support, travel support, sponsorships, PR, legal, appearances and seminars, and fight procurement.

Wimsett: Who are some of the biggest sponsors in the industry?  How do you ensure them a return on their investment?  How has the slumping economy affected sponsorship and/or endorsement deals you get for your fighters?

Pavia: TapouT is an industry leader.  This question is best answered by the sponsorship department.

Wimsett: Where do you see the UFC in five years?  Still the ”King of the Mountain” or will there be some other large-scale promotion competing for PPV dollars?

Pavia: Really your guess is as good as mine.  I will say they have a significant head start.

Wimsett: Describe a typical workday for you.  Do you travel a lot?

Pavia: I travel 7 out of 8 weekends.  I get up about 9 or 10 and just break to eat and continue to work until generally 3 or 4 AM, 7 days a week.  I will never be out worked.

Wimsett: Other than your law degree, do you have any other certifications or licenses?  Anything really necessary?

Pavia: I was certified to represent athletes by the player associations of the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL.

Wimsett: Where is MMA Agents headquartered?

Pavia: We are based out of Huntington Beach with affiliate offices in Korea, London and Paris.

Wimsett: Do you feel you have to be in or around Las Vegas or be able to travel there regularly to make your business work?

Pavia: I get there enough and with my blackberry, I am global.  I represent about 8 fighters out of Vegas.

Wimsett: Do you have an East Coast operation?

Pavia: No I do not.

Wimsett: Thoughts on WAMMA?  A Fighter’s Association?

Pavia: Don’t really know much about them.  But will say I really like Mike Lynch.

Wimsett: What MMA websites do you stay up to date on?  How do you stay informed about what’s happening in this ever-changing industry?

Pavia: Junkie, Sherdog, Weekly, MMA.tv, Facebook, and Myspace are always open on my computer.  I also peek at CBSsportsline and USAtoday.

Wimsett: As a fan, what MMA matchup would you most like to see right now?

Pavia: Tito v Babalu, Radach v Lawler, Vitor v Anderson, Riggs v Shields or Diaz, Baroni v Davis or Diaz, Cyrille v Houston or Irvin, Hieron v Goat, AJ v Howard or Alves, Pyle v Condit, and Kampman v Swick.

Wimsett: How many employees do you have?  How do you recruit and hire?  Do you have an internship program?

Pavia: We have 5 employees and 5 interns, and one full time consultant.  We do have an intern program and usually take law students.

Wimsett: Who is your biggest competition?

Pavia: Ourself.  We are first and second best.

Wimsett: Who do you look up to in the sports business?  Role models?

Pavia: I admire Drew Rosenhaus and Lee Steinberg.  I admire Jim Rome and Tommy Lasorda.

Wimsett: What’s the most important skill/attribute of an effective MMA agent?

Pavia: Personality, ice in veins, ability to be rational not emotional, and ability to solve problems.  Thick skin too…

Wimsett: Are you actively recruiting college wrestlers?  How do you recruit clients?

Pavia: No we are not.  We only sign fighters that have experienced a significant amount of success at a local circuit and are ready for major shows.

Wimsett: What do you do to get away from the chaos?  When was your last vacation?

Pavia: I haven’t had a real break in three plus years,  I don’t get away from the chaos.  It defines me.

This is the third interview in an on-going series by Gary Wimsett, Jr., lawyer and MMA enthusiast, about the business of Mixed Martial Arts.  In Part I, Gary spoke with Sports Illustrated Senior Contributor, L. Jon Wertheim, about his new book, “Blood in the Cage” about the history of MMA, the career of Pat Miletich, and the rise of the UFC.  In Part II, Gary and Sam Sheridan, author of “A Fighter’s Heart” engaged in a Q & A regarding Sam’s insights into the fighting world as a writer and fighter. In this interview, Gary speaks with MMA fighting legend, Pat Miletich, about Pat’s new project, WAMMA, and other provocative issues swirling around the business of MMA in 2009.  Stay tuned for additional installments.

On February 5, 2009, I had the opportunity to talk to Pat Miletich about MMA generally, WAMMA, and the business side of the sport.  The following is a transcription of our telephone conversation.  It has been edited for readability.

Wimsett:  I would like to start by acknowledging the passing of Helio Gracie, one of the sport’s true legends.  Did you ever have an opportunity to meet Helio?

Miletich:  I did – and it was an honor.  Here’s a guy who was a true visionary.  He understood jiu jitsu on such a high level.  He dissected it and constantly refined it.  He showed the world how a little man could beat a big man and he changed the fight game in a very significant way.

Wimsett:  We’re a month into 2009 – what’s WAMMA’s priority this year?

Miletich:  Gary, the main thing is this – to make sure the highest ranked guys get to fight each other for an undisputed world title belt.  It’s that simple.  Of course, we want to continue to educate the fans about the importance of having an undisputed world title belt.  Look, a lot of organizations have belts, and that’s fine.  But MMA needs an undisputed belt.  People need to understand that being an organizational champion in no way, shape or form makes you the undisputed world champion.  It’s very important for fans to understand that.  The athletes need to understand this, too.  It’s to everyone’s benefit.

Wimsett: Maybe not everyone’s.  My sense is that the fans understand what WAMMA wants to do and they get the idea of an undisputed champion.  It’s the UFC that needs convincing.

Miletich:  Anyone with one eye and half a brain can see why the UFC’s not interested in a unified belt.  It dilutes their brand.  The UFC has a lot of the best MMA fighters, but they do not have all of them.  They know the WAMMA belt represents something bigger than an organizational belt.  Some of the number one, two and three guys don’t fight in the UFC.  Those guys deserve the right to fight for the world championship.  Just as the UFC fighters deserve the right to fight for an undisputed belt.  Look at Fedor [Emelianenko] for example.  He’s ranked #1 in the world.  The UFC has the 4^th or 5^th ranked guy.  I’m sure Brock Lesnar or Frank Mir would like to fight Fedor for the championship but obviously the UFC’s not letting that happen right now.  As a fighter, if I’m not the #1 guy in the world – I at least want a shot at it.

Wimsett:  If Zuffa [UFC's parent company] doesn’t get on board, what can WAMMA do?

Miletich:  The fans are starting to embrace the idea of a WAMMA belt.  The fans love the Affliction shows and some of the great shows put on by the other promotions. Scott Coker’s an incredible promoter. Monte Cox’s Adrenaline is picking up speed.  The Japanese promotions have high-level fighters.  It’s starting to dawn on people that the UFC does not have all the best fighters in the world.  They have a lot of them.  But they don’t have all of them.  As we see more television exposure for these other promotions, the voice of the fans will grow stronger and the UFC will have to answer.  We believe it is just a matter of time.

Wimsett:  WAMMA’s now in its second year.  What’s its biggest achievement to date?

Miletich:  We’re working very hard on simply building relationships with all the existing promotions.  We’re proud of the work we’re doing in that area.  We’ve traveled the country explaining WAMMA to the media, to promoters, to fighters.  It’s an ongoing education campaign but we’re proud of how far we’ve come.

Wimsett:  I know that one of WAMMA’s stated goals is fortifying MMA’s legitimacy.  I’m curious – does the emergence of a former WWE champion [Brock Lesnar] compromise MMA’s legitimacy at all.

Miletich:  Not at all.  People need to understand, and I think they do, that most WWE athletes are great athletes.  Brock Lesnar was a Division I national champion wrestler.  That doesn’t happen by accident.  He’s a tremendous athlete.

Wimsett:  Do you anticipate any major rule changes in MMA.  For example, Sam Sheridan, your friend, and author of “A Fighter’s Heart” predicted the possible return to glove-less fighting?

Miletich:  They are doing that in Brazil, I think.  But, I don’t see it as a smart move.  Guys are going to shatter their hands.  Some of the early fighting contests started that way in order to prove which martial art was the best – the Gracie’s set out to do that and they did a great job.  But the guys have become so well-rounded and are so good at striking and stopping take downs and inflicting heavy blows on each other that you’d have careers come to a screeching halt because guys will start shattering their hands.  In a street fight where you have to defend yourself and possibly save your life you are going to go ahead and punch people.  But when you make your living and feed your family with your hands, the longevity of your career is very important.  I don’t see that as something that takes off and does well.

Wimsett:  Do you anticipate any major rule changes?

Miletich:  I really don’t.  The guys that have worked on the rules in their current form, they’ve worked hard and they knew what they were doing.  The guys in New Jersey who helped write the rules and put in the weight classes, they’ve done good work.  John Peretti – the original matchmaker for the UFC, and Nick Lembo, they’ve been instrumental in writing these rules.

Wimsett:  Let’s talk about WAMMA and fighter pensions.

Miletich:  Again, the main goal right now is to make sure the athletes have the opportunity to fight for the undisputed world title.  We want the athletes to make the proper amount of money because of those fights and we want cross-promotion bouts.  Those are our priorities at WAMMA.  Fighter pensions – that’s a goal.  But, as you know, there are a lot of people talking about forming a fighter’s union and that’s something we would hand off to a fighter’s union when and if that comes to pass.  Some people think a union is around the corner, some people think it’s further down the road.  We’ll see.  These kinds of issues will likely fall to those people forming the union.  Health insurance is another thing.  There are a lot of things that need to happen on behalf of the athletes.  They need help.  They need to not sign their rights away for a lifetime.  It’s wrong.  The 360 deals the UFC talk about – I think they’re illegal.  They restrict people from being able to make money.  I think they’re going to run into some serious legal problems.

Wimsett: I know a lot of people hope those 360 deals don’t happen.

Miletich:  Let’s just say this.  If fighters sign those contracts, you know the union attorneys will be filing a class action lawsuit.

Wimsett:  To be clear, WAMMA wants to work with a fighter’s union?  Not be a fighter’s union?

Miletich:  We’d work very closely with a fighter’s union.  We’re for a lot of the same things that a union would be for.  And it basically boils down to fighter’s rights.  We want to help the fighters and the fans.  And in the end, the promoters are going to make a lot more money, too.

Wimsett: Is there a particular group that WAMMA is looking at as far as a union partner?

Miletich:  I have not been contacted by anyone yet regarding a union but I expect the calls will be coming soon.

Wimsett:  Let’s talk about the quality of the officiating in MMA right now.

Miletich:  Some of it is very good and some of it is very bad.  Obviously I’m not going to name names.  I think as a rule, the guys that compete in the sport are better at officiating than guys that don’t.  This sport is so much more complex than boxing, you have to know when a submission is going to be put on somebody, you have to know when it’s coming so you are prepared to stop the fight when someone’s in trouble.  You have to understand when someone’s unconscious – even when the fighter’s eyes are open.  I’ve seen guys who were unconscious being choked because the referee didn’t know the guy was unconscious. Little things like that.  It’s the same with judging.  We’ve seen some bad decisions, sure.  Just like in boxing.  And it comes from the fact that you’ve got guys judging who have never competed in the sport.  People think, for example, when they see a bad decision in boxing that something dirty is going on but I’ve got to tell you, more often than not, it’s because the judges are just in over their heads.  They’re contractors or doctors and they’re judging on the weekends.  You’re going to get some bad decisions.  MMA – man, then you are really scrambling their brains when they’re trying to figure out what’s going on in the cage.

Wimsett:  Is this an area WAMMA would like to address organizationally?

Miletich:  In the end, it’s really up to the various athletic commissions in the states and some of them are great at it.  Some are not.  There needs to be some sort of baseline.  These refs and judges are holding kids futures and careers in their hands.  It’s a big thing.  For me personally and the company also, so yes, it’s something we’re looking at.

Wimsett: I know you’re not interested in naming names but is there a referee out there doing a particularly good job you’d like to mention?

Miletich:  John McCarthy is probably the best out there.  Yves Lavigne is very good.  Herb Dean’s gotten a lot better over the years with his experience.  Those are just some and there are others.

Wimsett:  Tell me about the Ranking Board?

Miletich:  We’ve got 30 members on the ranking board right now and they are the very best media guys in MMA in the business.  Sam Kaplan chairs that committee.  WAMMA is not a part of it.  It’s separate.  It’s the best system we could come up with and we think those guys are doing a great job.  We think it’s a safe system and it’d be foolish for anyone to try to get a hold of those guys and try to sway their opinions.  Who’s going to pay-off 30 ranking board members?

Wimsett:  Let’s talk about your business partners.

Miletich:  We do a lot of conference calls.  Fred Levin’s involved with giving his input and guiding the organization.  Mike Lynch is obviously another very smart guy who is very involved.  With Dave [Szady] being the CEO and President, former FBI/CIA official, he’s a guy whose integrity cannot be called into question.  We want to be straight up.  Lynch knows about every fighter on the planet and they’re all class acts.  We’ve all become very good friends and I enjoy being in business with them.

Wimsett: Fedor’s next fight?

Miletich:  Josh Barnett.  That’s a huge fight.  Right now, they are the two best heavyweights on the planet without a doubt.

Wimsett:  Who’s the best non-heavyweight fighter in the world right now?

Miletich:  George St. Pierre comes to mind.  Anderson Silva is another one.  I’ve known those guys for a lot of years.  I think that Rob Lawler is going to sneak up on a lot of people.  I don’t think people realize how good Rob’s gotten.  I don’t care who you are, if you get hit by Rob, you are going to sleep.  He’s a guy who I really think could be the best pound for pound guy on the planet.

Wimsett:  Who’s the toughest guy you’ve out at the gym in Bettendorf?

Miletich:  That’s a tough question.  Over the years we’ve had the best of the best come through.  I think we’ve had over 85 guys on Pay Per View shows, something like 14 organizational champions.  I couldn’t narrow it down.

Wimsett:  Proudest moment as a fighter?

Miletich:  Holding the title for 3 and a half years – probably.  Coming back after having such a tough time healing up my neck after 4 or 5 years.  That was pretty big accomplishment.

Wimsett:  What’s the most surprising thing you’ve learned about yourself through fighting?

Miletich:  It’s a huge growth process when you climb in the ring.  You are naked to the world and you have no excuses.  You have to go out there and be the man or get beat up.  I was a kid that came from a little bit of a rough background.  My dad wasn’t always the nicest guy.  There’s a lot of guys out there like that and they use that as a crutch.  But, it’s no excuse to be a jerk in life.  Fighting makes me a better person and helps me deal with my own issues and my demons and you realize it’s not that hard to treat people well.  It’s a growth experience for sure.

Wimsett: That’s one of the things I really like about the sport is that after the bout you see that mutual respect the fighters have for each other and that’s very compelling and noble.

Miletich:  Absolutely.  There is no animosity among fighters.  For the most part.

Wimsett:  Talk about the difference between training and fighting.

Miletich:  Training can be intense.  But, when you step into the ring for a fight and the crowd’s there and the lights are shining down . . . there’s nothing like that adrenaline rush.  Your senses are all at their peak.  And when you start the fight, and for your first few fights, everything is a blur – it’s chaos.  It’s an amazing sensation.  But after a while, the fight starts to slow down and when you go back and watch the fight it’s like watching it in fast motion again.  It’s very strange.  But once you’ve been in a few fights, things slow down and you start to see things, sense and understand and anticipate things.

Wimsett:  What would you tell to up and coming fighters in terms of mastering a particular fighting style to get a strong foundation.

Miletich:  Wrestling.  Wrestlers have heart.  Strong tendons, good balance.  Incredible strength.  The hardest part is teaching them the rhythm of stand up.  But if they can get that, I’ll take a wrestler any day.  Good work ethic.  Endurance.  It’s tough to find that anywhere else.

Wimsett:  What do you think about all the karate dojos advertising “MMA classes” now?

Miletich:  It’s kind of funny.  It wasn’t that long ago when those guys were telling their students, you can’t go fight MMA, these moves are designed to kill.  I find that amusing.  But in the long run, it’s probably good.  It brings more exposure to the sport.  Ultimately, WAMMA and state athletic commissions will need to look at what these dojos are doing and whether there needs to be more regulation so guys don’t get hurt.

Wimsett: WAMMA’s obviously been reaching out to a lot of promotions.  What’s the best small promotion that most MMA fans haven’t heard of?

Miletich:  Extreme Challenge.  It’s the oldest besides the original UFC owners.  Monte Cox runs that.  He’s been my manager for my entire career and he and I got into the sport together.  And he puts on great shows.

Wimsett: How did Jon Wertheim [author of "Blood in the Cage"] get out of Bettendorf without getting slapped around especially after Sam Sheridan took so much punishment?

Miletich:  You know, some guys are writers and some guys are fighters.  Sam came over to get the fight experience.  Jon’s goals were different.  They’re both great guys and I think Jon’s book is really good and I hear it’s been getting good reviews.  Sam’s a great guy.  I wish we were neighbors.  He’s got a great sense of humor and he’s just a lot of fun to be around.

Wimsett:  What are your thoughts on sports agents entering the MMA space?

Miletich:  The innocence of the sport is gone.  But, agents are the guys that have the connections to the big sponsor dollars and they’ve negotiated really large contracts so that’s a good thing to have on your side.

Wimsett: Take “fighter X”, in the middle of the pack, does he need an agent?

Miletich:  Everyone needs some sort of representation so they don’t get taken advantage of.  You need someone who knows what to look for in contracts.  Some of these guys have the Nike, Adidas contacts.  They can bring more money to the table.

Wimsett: Have you seen the new UFC-branded gyms?  Your thoughts.

Miletich:  Smart business idea by the UFC.  The quality of instruction remains to be seen inside of them.  This is a sport where bigger is probably not better.  If you can find a hole in the wall gym and learn from a guy who really knows his stuff – that’s a better training environment.  But I don’t think those are the guys these branded gyms are really looking for anyway.  I think they’re mostly looking for the kids and housewives who just want to get in shape.

Wimsett: What’s the best place for up and coming fighters to train in the United States?

Miletich:  Anywhere where they have a lot of good, experienced fighters.  No specific places necessarily.  Somewhere with a proven track record of putting out great fighters.

Wimsett:  How’s WAMMA going to make money? What’s your revenue stream?

Miletich:  It comes down to, you know when you watch all the bowl games on TV, and you see the FedEx Sugarbowl for example, the WAMMA belt will be co-branded with sponsors so it’ll be the, for example, the Gatorade/WAMMA heavyweight world title.  That’s the model.

Wimsett:  Pat, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you this afternoon.

Miletich:  Sure thing, Gary.  No problem.  I enjoyed it.

Sports Agents

• A male sports agent who finds himself turned into a woman? [Pilots: FOX Casts 'Eva Adams']

Basketball

• Kobe Bryant on a horse [Kobe Bryant: Ankle Insurance Salesman, Redeemed Figure.].
• With Kobe’s strong presence in China, this makes a lot of sense [Kobe Signs Deal With Chinese Web Site].

Performance Analysis

• Eat your vegetables and play your video games! [Playing Video Games Good For You?]

MMA

• The door is wide open…there is still a lot of money to be made [Companies Warm to Sponsoring Mixed Martial Arts].

Football

• Late round and undrafted players getting their shot in the NFL [Dolphins sign CFL Defensive Player of the Year Cameron Wake].

Wimsett: I would like to welcome you, on behalf of the Sports Agent Blog, and thanks for taking time from your busy publicity tour to speak with me about your new book, Blood in the Cage. Let’s start with the obvious question – how’d you transition from writing about women’s tennis, basketball, and billiards to tackling a book about the history and the possible future of MMA?

Wertheim: My day job is with Sports Illustrated.  A few years back, I wrote a story about the UFC, [SI featured Roger Heurta on the cover].  I finished the story and it was just one of these things where I came away thinking there was so much more to write about.  I knew I could turn it into something bigger and I became seduced by the sport.  Are you a fan?

Wimsett: Absolutely.  I was lured in by the Ultimate Fighter programming.  It was interesting to read in your book that TUF arguably saved the UFC.  But I’m a relative newcomer.

Wertheim: I’ve been pretty open about this – two years ago, before I wrote the story for SI, I knew very little about the sport.  I immersed myself in it.  Now, I watch MMA just as much as I watch other sports, if not more.  That’s what the MMA does, it lures you in and then you’re hooked.

Wimsett: As a newcomer to the sport, was it difficult to get the fighters to open up?  Did they lock down?  Did you find your experience level to be an obstacle?

Wertheim: Perhaps in some ways.  But more often than not, most of the guys were so cool.  Many of the fighters were happy I was taking an interest in the sport.  They sensed I was there to learn the sport and to really try to understand where they were coming from.  One of the things so compelling about this sport is that these guys are so accessible and open.  It was a pleasure dealing with them and their families.  I was treated great.  I’d be talking to Jens [Pulver] and he’d say “Hey, I’m hungry.  Let’s continue this.  I’ll make some dinner and we’ll keep talking.”  That doesn’t happen when you cover LeBron James or Peyton Manning.  Sure, sometimes they looked at me like I was crazy when I asked basic questions.  But I can’t complain at all but how I was treated.

Wimsett: That really describes my experience.  I’ve been approaching it from a lawyer’s perspective, and an agent’s perspective.  And I’ve found the fighters are really interested in talking about the sport.  For the most part, they’re excited to talk about the sport with anyone who will listen.  The access has been pretty incredible.

Wertheim: These guys get it.  If this sport were only open to the people that were into in 1999, they wouldn’t be doing half a million pay per view buys.  It’s sort of like a band… It’s sort of like a band that was playing in college bars.  And sure, they appreciate the original fan base but now, they’re play bigger shows, they realize that people were late to the party but they’re not going to freeze them out.

Wimsett: One of the things I hear from the guys is that they still aren’t getting the kind of coverage in the mainstream media they think they deserve.  When will this change?  Will SI start spilling more ink on MMA coverage?

Wertheim: I think it’s going to.  Down the road.  Listen, some of the writers still haven’t been able to draw the distinction in their minds between the UFC and the lower quality stuff that’s out there.  It’s still very new to them.  They hear “cage fighting” and they think Kimbo Slice is doing the same thing Randy Couture is.  But I think it’s going to change in part because it’s just an economics thing.  It will reach a critical mass where you have to acknowledge it – that’s how it works in this business.  Any business, really.  People are going to realize this isn’t about some tough guys fighting in a local armory – this is the real deal.  I still have to explain that to people.  Once it’s demystified, the floodgates will open.  You know, I’m not sure the New York Times is going to have a full time MMA writer anytime soon but I think it’s getting pretty close to the point where you can’t ignore it anymore.

Wimsett: I’m paraphrasing but you suggest in your book that, in many ways, popular culture and MMA are colliding at just the right time.  Explain what you mean?

Wertheim: Combat, fighting – these things are more acceptable in our culture and it’s because of a lot of things.  A lot of it, I think, is a reaction to the political correctness culture we’re rebelling against.  The “precautionary society”.  Sure, the sport is getting safer, more regulated.  It doesn’t look like it did, you know, in 1993 with UFC 1.  But I think a lot if it has to do with the culture.  People don’t have backyard diving boards anymore; you can’t ride a bike without a helmet.  Well, guess what?  MMA turns all of that on its ear.  It’s raw and it’s out there and people are responding to that.  You have schools where they don’t want you to play dodge ball.  People are saying enough is enough and MMA is taking off.

Wimsett: What does the sport need to do to keep these new eyeballs?

Wertheim: Well, people sort of rolled their eyes when they saw Brock Lesnar, the WWE champion, suddenly fighting for an MMA title.  But then they looked at his actual pedigree.  You look at the fact he was an NCAA champion wrestler and, you know, almost made an NFL team.  But then you also just sort of look at what he’s able to do when he got in there.  MMA, the UFC, they know they need to maintain credibility.  That’s critical.

Wimsett: Let’s talk about the UFC a little bit.  5 years from now, is the UFC the only game in town?

Wertheim: That’s a good question.  I think a lot of the future of the sport depends on the answer to that.  You know, we see these other leagues come and they sort of talk a good game.  They’re all going to challenge the UFC and they’re all going to make life easier for fighters.  And, you know, here we are, in 2009, and the UFC monopoly is probably as dominating as ever.  You know, it’s going to take a lot of money.  It’s going to take a smart business plan, not… you know, let’s put Kimbo in there and go get CBS.  I think the UFC… for a number of reasons, I mean, obviously sort of the competitive advantage but just kind of the marketing and the whole pay-per-view thing, I think UFC is at the top of the mountain right now and it’ll be hard to knock them off.

Wimsett: You’ve heard the complaints and read the same message boards.  The UFC has its detractors.

Wertheim: Yeah… this is the drawback to no competition.  It’s great for the UFC that it’s the only game in town and they can say, “Hey, BJ…” you know, “Hey BJ, get in there with Georges St. Pierre” and there’s no haggling.  But the flipside is what causes some of the backlash.  There’s no other option there so the UFC can have things their way.  They are calling the shots, it’s that simple.  They have a stack of resumes of fighters who can step up.

Wimsett: It’s interesting down here in Florida.  We’ve got the XFC.  And they’re sort of running a different business model that’s been interesting to watch, and they really try to promote the sport more than the personalities per se.  I like what John Prisco is doing.  He’s got a smart team.  They’re doing it in a different way.

Wertheim: Someone will have to come at it a different way.  A twist.  Some promotions have tried the league concept.  You know, people are out there trying new things.  That’s what it’ll take.  And a television deal.  That’s what it’ll come down to.

Wimsett: Get the TV deals and the landscape changes?

Wertheim: You have to have exposure.  These fighters know the drill, too.  They’re competitors and they want to fight in the best league with the best exposure.  Right now, that’s the UFC.

Wimsett: I want to switch gears a little bit and focus on the fighters.  Particularly the guys nobody knows yet.  Like the college wrestlers.  Did you get a sense that these athletes are taking real notice of MMA’s rise?  Do you see the day when college wrestlers are going to be recruited like football players and baseball players?

Wertheim: College wrestlers are definitely in tune with MMA.  Yeah, I think that’s happening.  And this is great for MMA.  It’s not just popular as a spectator sport but great athletes want to step into the cage and try this stuff.  I was up in Minnesota recently and there are guys on the team that train MMA during downtime.  Every neighborhood dojo is advertising its MMA training.  But with the college wrestlers – they can make the weight…they know how to train.  It helps legitimize the sport.

Wimsett: Pat Miletich is one of my heroes.  Tell me about Pat.

Wertheim: You can’t say enough good things about Pat.  Pat’s consolation is that he comes away as a guy who built the sport.  He has an untouchable reputation.  He did things honorably and honestly.  Here’s a 5 time champion who just sort of came on too early.  Some of these young guys will score a fight of the night bonus and eclipse Pat’s career winnings and that’s tough to stomach but it happens in sports.

Wimsett: What’s your take on Dana White?

Wertheim: My take on Dana White is that same as yours and the same as anyone who’s ever seen him on TV or on the Internet.  The guy is who he is – he wears it all on his sleeve.  And sure, there’s good and bad.  But, you have to hand it to him.  He’s a straight shooter and he’s a businessman.  To his credit, the UFC would not be in the dominant position it’s in today without a “Dana White.”  If you’d run this [the UFC] the way Roger Goodell runs the NFL or David Stern run the NBA, you’d be in trouble.  This sport needs Dana White right now.  People have their opinions about Dana.  I know this – the UFC wasn’t a thriving enterprise before he got there.

Wimsett: With the PPV buys going up, do you get a sense the purses will start to keep pace?

Wertheim: Not right away.  They don’t need to raise the purses.  UFC fighters are making more than they could make in any other promotion.  It’s supply and demand.  The UFC can put cards together and they’ll continue to do that.  Lots of guys want to fight.  Somehow, the math has to turn around.  You and I could fight on a UFC card and they’re still going to get the buys.  The fighters will have to prove they’re the draw.

Wimsett: Performance enhancing drugs, you talked a little bit about this in your book.  How much drug use is their in the sport at the higher levels?

Wertheim: That’s an interesting question.  Some fighters are using and some aren’t.  That’s about all we know.  We’ve seen some test results – results that have been made public.  So, it’s pretty clear that at some level, anyway, it’s going on.  The UFC is in a little bit of a tight spot, to their credit, just because you need commission approval and commissions do the drug testing.  So, the UFC is following the rules.  Should the rules be tougher?  The right people will have to talk about that – I don’t know the answer.

Wimsett: Sports agents, good for the sport, bad for the sport?  I talked to Sam Sheridan a little [author of A Fighter's Heart]… and he’s very pro agent.  And obviously, Dana White is on record as being less inclined to work with agents.

Wertheim: That’s a really good question.  And I think that we haven’t heard the last of it.  A lot of issues are bubbling and it could be a good time for agents to get into the market in a bigger way.  It’ll be tough though.  The UFC set-up will make it hard for agents to make it worth their time.  Maybe in a perfect world, lawyers and agents push to get these guys in a union with certain working conditions and health benefits, that kind of thing, you know, it probably would make sense.  I think it’s going to be very hard.  And, I think, if the UFC decides to ignore all the guys who Gary Wimsett represents, you’re out.  The UFC is still going to be able to hold cards just fine.

Wimsett: As an agent, too, I’m looking at sponsors.  When will a Nike or an Adidas jump into the sport.

Wertheim: It’ll be gradual.  More sponsors are coming – just look at some of the old cards and you’ll now see more sponsors – Burger King’s on the mat.  The problem is that you still have a blood-stained mat and a cage.  It’ll be a while before you see the Nike Swoosh on the floor.

Wimsett: All the fighters I speak with want me to ask you what UFC looks for in fighters when they’re looking outside of their stable of fighters?  Do you have any sense of what they do in terms of looking what’s going on and some of these other leagues?  Or how they find talent across the country, in the world for that matter?

Wertheim: That’s a question for Joe Silva – if you could ever get him to answer.  But basically, I think, you have to have a couple of things going on.  You have to be a great fighter.  But, you also have to bring something else to the card.  That’s just business.

Wimsett: Have you watched any boxing since writing this book?

Wertheim: That’s funny.  Yeah, I mean, I used to be a big boxing guy.  And we cover it from time to time for Sports Illustrated.  I go to the fights in New York.  I went to a show here in New York a couple of weeks ago, it’s… I mean, it’s hard to watch now.  It really is… You know, guy hits another guy and you’re ready for him to, like, take him down.  To me it was like watching a black and white movie or something.  MMA has really sapped my passion for boxing.

Wimsett: Jon, it’s been a real pleasure speaking with you and I wish your book a lot of success.  Please come back and talk to us after you finish the next one.

Wertheim: Deal.

Let’s all agree on one thing. Brock Lesnar is a gifted athlete, with an incredible wrestling background. However, he did not use his wrestling skills to defeat Randy Couture, which means what? This guy is evolving into a better fighter every time he steps into the Octagon. Another notable reason he defeated Randy is quite simple: He was too big for Randy to toss around. There were a few attempts by Couture to take Lesnar to the mat, with single leg takedowns, but the attempts were futile. Lesnar’s take down defense prevented that from happening. Besides, if you know someone can match your wrestling skills toe-to-toe, why take it to the ground? Not to mention, if Couture would have gotten Lesnar on the ground, it would have not been that difficult for Couture to possibly submit him.

Another point to make is that Randy came in too light for this fight. He should have packed on an additional 10 pounds. Giving up 65lbs is one thing, but to give up 76lbs to your opponent is another.

Not to discredit Couture, here is what he had in his favor: Conditioning. It was very noticeable in round 2 that Lesnar was starting to get worn down. Had Randy been able to stay on the proverbial path of ‘stick and move’, he would have been able to wear Lesnar down, which could have resulted in either a knockout or the fight going to the ground. Experience. Randy has over 25 fights under his belt, not to mention countless fights as an amateur. His game plan was well thought out, but ineffective against the bigger and stronger Lesnar. Nonetheless, to his acknowledgment, he came in prepared for victory. Crowd Support. Everyone knows in Las Vegas that Randy’s town. Brock was booed at the weigh ins and during the introductions. Getting the crowd behind you can be a tremendous help, but once the balance of power starts to swing, the crowd faded.

Bottom line is this: Brock Lesnar was the biggest and strongest opponent Randy Couture has fought. Couture put up a valiant effort, but when it is all said and done, Brock Lesnar’s hand was held high as the new heavyweight champion. A question to consider: What is in store for Randy Couture? Whether it is retirement or another battle in the Octagon, whatever the choice, we all must tip our hat to The Natural Randy Couture.

Guest contribution by Warren Jackson, Co-Founder of Mayhem365 Sports Marketing